Curse

Inde · Apr 26, 2007, 02:38 PM // 14:38

April 25th, 2007 Gaile Chat (just a snippet)

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/6...atpart1mc8.jpg

Better pic, look toward the bottom for these 2 quotes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

We have no plans to add an auction house to Guild Wars. Perhaps it will be something for GW 2, I don't know.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray

we won't be adding an auction house to Guild Wars

Patrick Smit · Apr 26, 2007, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Thats really a shame, the system now is extremely inefficient. We have a wonderfull game, with quite good graphics and satisfactory AI, but in the time where we have learned that stockmarkets work due centralized functions we dont acknowledge or ignore the invention. unrealistic prizes and no needless spamming as a result.

Seriously, even if Gaile just mentioned that they won't add it, they could surely say WHY they don't add it?

Kuldebar Valiturus · Apr 26, 2007, 03:17 PM // 15:17

As much as it pains me to think it, there are probably very real technical reasons why we can't have an Auction House function:

-there would have to be a server based trade item storage for all the items placed on Auction.

-An in-game mail system would have to be implemented along with the Auction House Function in order to distribute the unsold items, purchased items and all the money. Even if this distribution system didn't involve player based mail and the items/gold "magically" appeared in your inventory...the function would have to be created.

-Server/bandwidth would be impacted in a big way...

Probably the best we will get is linkable item information in trade chat and private chat. And, this would be a much needed improvement to the current "grind" of trade in Guild Wars.

I don't buy or sell things very often, usually only when I am broke and need money for new build armor or a key skill or 2. It took me an hour and a half to sell a green max shield by using trade chats in various districts. I was selling it for 3k.

The text field challenged Party Search-TRADE function is reset upon changing locations which makes it even more of a waste of time.

Series · Apr 26, 2007, 03:36 PM // 15:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuldebar Valiturus

Even if we never get an Auction House, the ability to shift-click item info into certain chat channels would be a HUGE improvement. I think if we can shift-click build templates into a chat line, we should be able to do the same for an item.

That is a great idea. A very great idea. It would practically kill off local chat spam as the trade channel would be so much better.

Bryant Again · Apr 26, 2007, 03:37 PM // 15:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inde

April 25th, 2007 Gaile Chat (just a snippet)

http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/6...atpart1mc8.jpg

Better pic, look toward the bottom for these 2 quotes:

Well drat. At least they told us.

Now how about a hair merchant? Is that possible or no?

aaje vhanli · Apr 26, 2007, 03:54 PM // 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rhedd

Actually, I used to think the exact same thing, until I actually tried to use it once.

The allowed line of text is so small that the system is essentially useless for anything but the simplest of items.

I admit that it isn't the best option imaginable, but I have used it (and seen it used) plenty of times since its implementation. The main problem is you have to be in Kamadan, Kaineng, Lion's Arch or Shing Jea Monastery to find enough people utilizing it to make it useful. While I also agree that the text line is too short, it is still a largely viable option that would be both more organized and help get rid of some spam (if people used it). I would love to see the text line lengthened, but why should aNet improve upon this feature (no matter how simple it may be) if we don't collectively use it as it is currently available?

People complain consistently that he interface doesn't work but it is one that is dependent on a collective majority as whole. If people refuse to use it, it will never work.

Of course, we all come from unique ethical or moral bases, but I don't see why aNet should offer improvement on this Trading system if we can't first make use of all that is available to us.

Post Script: Besides... 90% of the spam that I see in any town/outpost would easily and reasonably fit in the Party Search interface. The 10% that is too lengthy (or any Trade spam in general), in my opinion, should be kept in the Trade Channel anyways because it is simply rude to flood Local with any of it. Perhaps people are just afraid of change unless it is the "ideal" system.

zwei2stein · Apr 26, 2007, 04:01 PM // 16:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuldebar Valiturus

Probably the best we will get is linkable item information in trade chat and private chat. And, this would be a much needed improvement to the current "grind" of trade in Guild Wars.

One thing to support this theory:

new skillbar display interface (crtl+clicking skillbar thing).

once they added "hyperlink" to chatwindow, extending it to work similary for crtl+clicking items ... hmm.

That would be neat, but wouldnt solve worth thing about trading: it is kinda time sink.

Kuldebar Valiturus · Apr 26, 2007, 04:12 PM // 16:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaje vhanli

People complain consistently that he interface doesn't work but it is one that is dependent on a collective majority as whole. If people refuse to use it, it will never work.

It really doesn't work, and people don't choose to rely on it because it really doesn't work. And, by work, I mean deliver consistent results.

It doesn't work because:

1.) You can't type in enough necessary detailed item information on what you are trying to sell or buy.

2.) It's not global, you have to re-enter the information every time you change locations/districts.

3.) It's not superior to using open chat channels because open chat is spammable and has more exposure to more people at one time.

4.) It doesn't alleviate/lessen the burden of trekking through crowded districts just to "show" the item in a trade window to possible buyers. <so, it offers no improvement in that regard>

I agree that a poor universal system might be better than none, but at the moment the open chat channel system for trade is still the best system we have by popular vote despite its very many flaws.

Bryant Again · Apr 26, 2007, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaje vhanli

I would love to see the text line lengthened, but why should aNet improve upon this feature (no matter how simple it may be) if we don't collectively use it as it is currently available?

The Party Search feature was made for just that: Finding parties. Text length is short because all you need to say is "LF Monk, Mission + Bonus". Reasons people don't use this could be as follows:

-It doesn't really much more efficent in finding a group: In normal mission outposts, spam is minimal. You only need to shout out every thirty seconds or so. I could see this feature most beneficial in say, Keining Center, since a lot of quests come from and are around that outpost. (Deldrimor Warcamp could also benefit greatly from this.)

-It wasn't the solution to the PUG problem: Before this feature was implemented, finding a decent PUG was rough. Finding a decent PUG after this feature was implemented did not solve the problem. The problem is the unreliability that comes with having to work with 7 other strangers, so people may becomed "turned off" from the risks that come with said unreliability, so they turn to something much more reliable: AI.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaje vhanli

Post Script: Besides... 90% of the spam that I see in any town/outpost would easily and reasonably fit in the Party Search interface. The 10% that is too lengthy (or any Trade spam in general), in my opinion, should be kept in the Trade Channel anyways because it is simply rude to flood Local with any of it. Perhaps people are just afraid of change unless it is the "ideal" system.

I'm not sure where you see that. Whenever I'm shopping in any of the tradeposts, I see entries that require the maximum amount of text. Of course there are instances where people spam "WTS 50 Bolts of Cloth PM PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEASE", which they could easily reduce to "Wts 50 bolts of cloth", and fit in the text window.

I guess that point is more about personal experience, reflecting upon it.

Fender · Apr 26, 2007, 04:23 PM // 16:23

I bet another reason they don't want an auction house is because bots would be able to unload all their items there and make more gold.

Kuldebar Valiturus · Apr 26, 2007, 04:23 PM // 16:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

One thing to support this theory:

new skillbar display interface (crtl+clicking skillbar thing).

once they added "hyperlink" to chatwindow, extending it to work similary for crtl+clicking items ... hmm.

That would be neat, but wouldnt solve worth thing about trading: it is kinda time sink.

Well, it's not an Auction House, so I agree it's not a complete solution but it would alleviate:

-having to open trade with people just so they could "see" the item

-reduce amount of trade spam in the non-Trade channels by only allowing item links in Trade or private whispers and maybe Guild.

-improve communication, no more obscure, tortured abbreviations and faux-laconic phrases for in-game items, you can now "see" the item for what it is by clicking the linked text.

Engel the Fallen · Apr 26, 2007, 04:56 PM // 16:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fender

I bet another reason they don't want an auction house is because bots would be able to unload all their items there and make more gold.

If this is the case again normal players suffer due to bots.

Mine as well call the game bot wars in this case, since it seems more is done to avoid bot issues than to fix real human issues.

Diablo™ · Apr 26, 2007, 06:04 PM // 18:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Well drat. At least they told us.

Now how about a hair merchant? Is that possible or no?

THAT is what I WANT!!!!!!!

NevynZeddicus · Apr 26, 2007, 06:46 PM // 18:46

I just came back to the game after a 6 month break about 7 weeks ago. First thing I noticed was the "search" button. Since then, everything I've bought, sold, and traded was accomplished using the search. I've rarely spent more than 5 minutes waiting for a buyer and haven't had any trouble saying what I want to say. People that complain about traveling across districts just to see an item, well, i'm sorry, to me, that's just laziness. how hard is it to temporarily group with someone, click on their name, and then click trade? I know there are better solutions out there, but seriously, we're not going to get what we want, they've said so. I really don't think an Auction house or whatever would make much difference anyway. I'd much rather have Anet working on making GWEN and GW2 as great as they can be w/o worrying about trade improvements that people would find something to bitch about within 5 minutes of release.

Blackest Rose · Apr 26, 2007, 07:31 PM // 19:31

I agree that the auction house system is the last big big functionality want for the PVE community.

Look at everything else they've done....
Observer mode
Reconnects (Thank Dwayna for that!!!)
Hard mode is pretty cool and lots of fun.
Party search is there but not used much.
Templates are great.
Character slots.
Additional storage...

Overall not bad at all, and the game has definitely come a long long way in two years - but it's a pity that trade was never addressed.

Everyone must understand that party search is not an auction system - at best it's an advertisement across multiple districts for an item.
It's the equivalent of spamming but without the spam.

An auction system should be so much more.
It should have the ability to be much more ebay like.
Starting price, buy it now, end time etc.
An it shouldn't rely on you being there in game.
(But you should only be allowed to sell a small amount of items at any one time)

My toons are so weighted down with gold and greens right now which I can't be bothered to spam sell that I most likely won't buy GW2 unless it has a decent trade system from the start.

Pity - I love this game (my 20 characters agree!!!) but trading has always bothered me as a waste of time I could be spending playing....

I'll definitely buy GW:EN but only because it's an add-on and I have lovingly developed characters ready to jump in - GW2 will be a fresh start, I expect to reexamine buying that game closer to the time of release.

Velath · Apr 26, 2007, 07:52 PM // 19:52

Blackest Rose - I completely agree with you. There have been a lot of improvements in the game, and although I've made use of auction sites, there could be much more functionality with an AH in the game. Now when I get items I would consider useful but not high end, they either go to guildies or my heroes.

I'll have to look at GW2 when it comes out, but I'm going to try and be involved in the beta when it does. I'll be there to buy GWEN although I'll be in the field for the 2nd half of the year so can only play 1 week every 3.

beanerman_99 · Apr 26, 2007, 08:04 PM // 20:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuldebar Valiturus

I don't buy or sell things very often, usually only when I am broke and need money for new build armor or a key skill or 2. It took me an hour and a half to sell a green max shield by using trade chats in various districts. I was selling it for 3k.
The text field challenged Party Search-TRADE function is reset upon changing locations which makes it even more of a waste of time.

Bolded text is exactly why I was hurt by the scaling loot update. I would rather spend 5-10 minutes farming Vermin and selling every single item I got to the merchant to make money.

It took you an 1 1/2 hour to make 3k where as I, by farming and selling to merchant, would make 3k in about 10 minutes. The money I made was used to buy from merchants, not real player. I would mostly buy Capture Signets and some new armors.

So ya, some sort of simplified, afk way of selling would be wonderful. Its sad Anet teased us with implementing some sort of simplified trading and all we got was the Search window and now we are told we will never get an auction house. Boo! and shame on you anet.

aaje vhanli · Apr 26, 2007, 09:30 PM // 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuldebar Valiturus

1.) You can't type in enough necessary detailed item information on what you are trying to sell or buy.

2.) It's not global, you have to re-enter the information every time you change locations/districts.

3.) It's not superior to using open chat channels because open chat is spammable and has more exposure to more people at one time.

4.) It doesn't alleviate/lessen the burden of trekking through crowded districts just to "show" the item in a trade window to possible buyers. <so, it offers no improvement in that regard>

1.) I have seen people make do with many abbreviations. If people want to use it, they will make it work - just as people have reverted to "W-T-S" and other variations of "WTS" to make Trade spamming in Local work. In my opinion, many details are not necessary, as people can Whisper to inquire about an item they might be interested in. This happens all the time, and WORKS. I have experience with this. I do agree, that longer text allowance would help; but I would rather suggest that they make linkable item names available in the Party Search interface to improve the system.

2.) I agree that it would be better if it was global, but spamming isn't global either, while Party Search at least reaches across select districts. You must re-enter your text in the Party Search window, but you must do the same with Chat Spam so they are equal in this regard.

3.) I believe that Party Search is, indeed, superior to spamming Local Chat because I can hang out in a district and leave Party Search open with my Advertisement without having to paste my phrase every 30sec - 1min. I also believe it is superior because I can leave my info in the Trade section for those who are looking for it, rather than having to spam in chat endlessly to many who don't care or do not desire my spam. This is subject to opinion, of course, because I put greater importance to efficiency than exposure. The concept of Party Search (and Trade channel) is to create a list of items up for Trade so that those looking for something know where to find it. The concept of spamming is to send everybody POP-UP adds that they don't want for the few who will respond. If all the supply moved to Party Search, so would all of the demand (or vice versa!).

4.) Party Search spans districts. With the Join Party option available thru Party Search, you can "pull" someone into your district and form a party with them. I think this reaches a wider audience than chat spamming, which is limited to a single district. Once you are in a party with he whom you wish to trade with, you can select their name an hit your Action key (default <Space Bar>) to automatically walk to them. I use both of these options when available and they work just fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

Reasons people don't use this could be as follows:

-It doesn't really much more efficent in finding a group: In normal mission outposts, spam is minimal. You only need to shout out every thirty seconds or so. I could see this feature most beneficial in say, Keining Center, since a lot of quests come from and are around that outpost. (Deldrimor Warcamp could also benefit greatly from this.)

-It wasn't the solution to the PUG problem: Before this feature was implemented, finding a decent PUG was rough. Finding a decent PUG after this feature was implemented did not solve the problem. The problem is the unreliability that comes with having to work with 7 other strangers, so people may becomed "turned off" from the risks that come with said unreliability, so they turn to something much more reliable: AI.

1.) You are right, those are very valid reasons. Party Search might be equivalent to the efficiency of spamming in normal mission outposts, but it would get rid of the spam (huge plus!) and people can idle while their message is in Party Search (you have to remain constantly active to spam because your message fades from the screen). In my opinion, this makes it superior to spamming.

2.) I used to completely agree with the PUG problem. I used to be an all Henchmen/Heroes kind of player, even, and was sick of immature players and people who just didn't know how to implement tactic or be a team player... but I have been finding recently that -if I give people a chance- more often than not, most are very good and/or are willing to learn. In my experience, you can usually tell how well or not a person is going to contribute to a party by having a brief team conversation prior to setting out. In less than a minute, I can easily tell if someones going to be a problem or of help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

I'm not sure where you see that. Whenever I'm shopping in any of the tradeposts, I see entries that require the maximum amount of text.

We probably have a different idea of what is "required" in most of the entries we see. To see further elaboration on my opinion on this topic please see #1 in my reply to Kuldebar Valiturus (unless you already have).

Thanks for sharing your opinions, Kuldebar and Bryant. I too would like to see vast Trade improvements. I just support that Party Search would be better than Local chat spamming for the community as a whole if people would use it.

arcanemacabre · Apr 27, 2007, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kuldebar Valiturus

As much as it pains me to think it, there are probably very real technical reasons why we can't have an Auction House function:

-there would have to be a server based trade item storage for all the items placed on Auction.

-An in-game mail system would have to be implemented along with the Auction House Function in order to distribute the unsold items, purchased items and all the money. Even if this distribution system didn't involve player based mail and the items/gold "magically" appeared in your inventory...the function would have to be created.

-Server/bandwidth would be impacted in a big way...

Probably the best we will get is linkable item information in trade chat and private chat. And, this would be a much needed improvement to the current "grind" of trade in Guild Wars.

See, there are other ways to "improve trade" than an auction house. I agree that creating an auction house in GW1 is probably just too much coding, and would eat up too many resources. However, they could add a new town accessable by all chapters, that would be a central trading town. In this town, maybe the "party search" window is replaced by a "player shop" window, and instead of one short line of text, you could have just a title for your sale that shows up as a link, and when clicked, brings up another window with more hot-links that bring up the items your selling and their prices.

Yes, you would have to still be online to sell, like now, but it would be sooo much easier to buy/sell anything, and not have to jump all over the place looking for an item to buy, or a buyer to sell to. Something like this would be, IMO, easy to implement, at least compared to an auction house.

countesscorpula · Apr 27, 2007, 12:32 AM // 00:32

Here's how I see it.

A-Net designers enjoy spam.

How do I come to that conclussion? I simply examined the actions taken.

Step 1: Reduce the amount of merchable crap dropping.
Step 2: Increase the amount of tradeable/desirable items dropping.
Step 3: Make a statement about how you would like players to trade more and merch less.
Step 4: Provide absolutely no improvements to the means for trading.
Step 5: Sit back and watch all the
spamspamspamspamspamspamspamsausagespamspamspamspa mspamspamspamspamspamspambaconspamspamspamspameggs spamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamsp amspamspamspamspamspamspamsausagespamspamspamspams pamspamspamspamspamspambaconspamspamspamspameggssp amspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspam spamspamspamspamspamspamsausagespamspamspamspamspa mspamspamspamspamspambaconspamspamspamspameggsspam spamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamsp amspamspamspamspamspamsausagespamspamspamspamspams pamspamspamspamspambaconspamspamspamspameggsspamsp amspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspam spamspamspamspamspamsausagespamspamspamspamspamspa mspamspamspamspambaconspamspamspamspameggsspamspam spamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamsp amspamspamspamspamsausagespamspamspamspamspamspams pamspamspamspambaconspamspamspamspameggsspamspamsp amspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspam spamspamspamspamsausagespamspamspamspamspamspamspa mspamspamspambaconspamspamspamspameggsspamspamspam spamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspamsp amspamspamspamsausagespamspamspamspamspamspamspams pamspamspambaconspamspamspamspameggsspamspamspamsp amspamspamspamspamspamspamspamspam

Mission accomplished.